Wednesday, February 02, 2005
Fresh Ink
I spoke with Dr. Beautiful today. It went as expected. She doesn't know why, she would like to see me try again. She mentioned many times how well I respond to the meds. She kept saying "you have no idea how well you respond, and I don't mean for 40 year olds, you get great response for women in their thirties"

She went on to say, "I'd like to see you try it again. There are no guarantees. We don't know why it didn't work, but you sure do respond well enough to give it another go."

To my surprise, she never mentioned donor eggs.

She told me that I was an excellent patient, she wished all of her patients were like me and she also said: "you would be an amazing mother and it would be so wonderful if we could get it to work for you".

I asked her if she would change my protocol. Her answer was "no".

I wanted to ask about her not checking my E2 level but thought that would be something to request during IVF#3.

She said that I did not need to waste a month on BCP's for "ovary rest" and I could begin injectables after I start my period in a week.

She mentioned that they know that from all of the studies and research, age is a factor.

I asked about getting brownie points for a 3.4 FSH and because I get so many eggs, or because all of my tests were above normal....... do I stand a better chance?

She was silent. Awkwardly silent.

As much as doctors make a big deal about all of these tests and how you have to pass, their tests are only for the Grade of F - you never get an A.

YOU WILL NEVER MAKE AN A.

In 4 years, I have subjected myself to so many tests that it actually is making me sob right now just thinking about it. I am sobbing silently because my husband is in his office and will hear me if I really let it go like I want to.

As long as I am silently weeping, he won't poke his head in here while I type this.

Every single test that I have subjected myself to has resulted in flying colors and accolade on the lab slip but has done little to impress my doctors.


I'll tell you a secret. There is a huge statue of the Virgin Mother off of the 101 Freeway on my way to Stanford and every single fucking time I had an appointment, I took her roses from my garden. I wrapped the bottoms with wet paper towels and I would lay them at her feet and say a prayer. I felt a bit unworthy because I am not Catholic and I thought she would know that I was never raised to pray to her, but I needed her help. I would place the wet paper toweled roses in a baggie for the commute. One time, I noticed a drop of blood inside the baggie and I took that as a sign. Back then, I took it as a good sign but now I see it as a warning. A metaphor of wasted blood, sweat and tears that might as well have been leaked into a baggie and thrown away.


I had a dear family member die suddenly last year. Her name was Mary and I cannot talk about everything yet, it is too much. I flew back to South Carolina for her funeral but she miraculously stayed alive when everything in her body had shut down. I sat with her family and mine at the hospital for two weeks as she fought death. I always thought people succumbed when it was time, that they found peace, but she made it clear that "it sucked" and she was not ready to go. She told me many times "don't give up on your babies, keep trying,....DON'T give up".

The last thing that I talked to Mary about was our upcoming IVF and I promised her that if I ever had a daughter I would name her "Mary Elise" or "Mary Anna Elise" and Mary said that she thought they were both "pretty".

Oh Lord. This is hard.

I just told M. about my conversation with Dr. Beautiful.

He said, "I can't see us doing IVF again. Not now. Not anytime soon."

I said, "It is now or never, I don't have time on my side anymore."

He said, "I don't see it happening."


I don't think he has noticed how much I am blowing my nose or how silent I am trying to be. I think it may be time to go to bed.
posted by Julianna · 2/02/2005

25 Comments:
At 9:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
You need to do what you need to do. 3 IVF's is not unusual or abnormal, some folks just take that many. Maybe he's scared, maybe it's the cost, who knows what men think but you're right, time is a precious thing right now and you should go for it. I love the name Mary too!  

At 10:00 PM, Blogger Cricket said...
Tell me to shut up, but I think he's protecting you. It is very sweet, but you are up to the task. I worry you would have trouble living with yourself wondering 'what if.'

I'm with ya, wondering and weeping. (And I'm sorry, I'm still a crass PMSer today.)  

At 6:40 AM, Blogger Kristin said...
Oh honey...I agree that he is probably trying to protect you but that doesn't make it suck any less. If you need to talk, you know where to find me. {{{HUge hugs}}} my friend.  

At 6:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm just thinking of you. Nothing else to say but that. I'm thinking of you a lot.

- getupgrrl  

At 7:03 AM, Blogger Ana said...
I am so sorry Juliana. I wish there was more I could say.  

At 7:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Oh honey, I'm sorry. I'm thinking of you, I wish I had something to say that would make you feel better, I really do.

Love,
Emily  

At 9:37 AM, Blogger Miss X said...
Oh Julianna I am so sorry. Brent and I are not always on the same page as far as treatment either and I know how painful it is. I’m thinking of you and hoping that your pain goes away.  

At 10:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm so sorry this is so hard. I wish there was something that I could do. I'm thinking about you.
-Abby (abfausto@hotmail.com)  

At 10:55 AM, Blogger Julie said...
This is a really beautiful post. I'm sorry it had to come at the expense of so much pain.  

At 3:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Okay, I'm going to be devil's advocate here. I don't think he's trying to protect you. He's a man. Do men usually have clandestine, deep agendas they won't reveal? I think he is saying he doesn't want to do it because....he doesn't want to do it. (I'll get to some theories in a minute.)

I've been reading your blog since the beginning, and you have written many times that he loves you to pieces but that he is happy with just the two of you.

It's hard to be objective about this, but from the outside, he really has done a lot. I think you wrote he has spent $27,000 that came from (formerly his) and now your money. You said he's as tight as a tick. I don't think that's a small feat for a frugal person--to shell out 27 grand. From what you write about him, he'd hardly blow 27 grand on himself, but he did that for you both. Also, I recall that you wrote he agreed to one procedure only, then agreed to do another one. Again, he's going above and beyond.

It sounds to me like you and M. are opposites in many ways. You wrote once that he isn't handsome or charming, but he has a razor sharp brain. It sounds like you two are a classic combination of left-brained, analytical, logical man and the expressive, creative, emotional woman.

Julianna, I suspect because you are an expressive, emotional person, you are pressuring him with emotional arguments. This will probably cause him to clam up more.

I'm being devil's advocate again, but the visit to Dr. Beautiful was predictable. An infertility doctor will tell you that the answer is--more fertility treatments, just like going to a surgeon will get you an answer that involves surgery. Men think like this.

Okay, so what would I do if I were you? I would ask him, calmly and without tears, what his objections are. And LISTEN. Don't stop listening until you can hear what he says and put it in your own words. "If I hear you correctly, M, you believe that spending additional money on this would deplete our savings past your comfort level." Don't try to fix it right away; the point is to listen to what he thinks.

Once you better understand what his objections are, you can think about it and make a plan. If it's money, perhaps you could work out a plan: you may decide to put X dollars from your job into the effort, or maybe you could pick up some extra work or make some budget adjustments.

Julianna, I'm not writing any of this to be nasty. Fertility issues are hard on marriages. Love is very hard to find, and I would hate to see you work against your husband on this. He sounds like a gem. I hope you two can work on this together.

Book recommendation: The Dance of Anger by Harriet Lerner. Get it soon!

Sign me, * marriage counselor in training *  

At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Oh J, I am so sorry. Infertility strips you of so much, and attacks the things you held most sacred and dear. What it does to its victims, to their relationships, is beyond cruel.
I am so sorry. I hope he changes his mind. I really do. Mostly because this is the first post you've written in a long time that began with a note of hope.
Menita
(lifesjestbook)  

At 4:35 PM, Blogger Julianna said...
Thank you everyone for your comments.

Dear MCIT (marriage counselor in training),

Are you my sister? Actually, I know you aren't but you sure do sound like her. Wow! You really have been paying attention to my blog and you are right.

YOU ARE RIGHT. On so many levels.

M. and I are complete opposites. We actually had go to a Nun for pre-marital counseling for the Catholic church and she weighed everything heavily on the Meyers Briggs Psychological test. We could not have been more opposite on all levels. I was an ENFP and he was everything opposite that. She went on to explain how difficult this can be but it can also be very empowering. As long as both of us realized that God does not make mistakes when He made us and we do not try to change each other. Everything I lack, M. has in abundance and vice versa. We could make a very powerful couple.

I have been very honest here. My husband doesn't come here and no one else reads my blog who is close to me in real life, so I have nothing to hide.

In being honest, I open myself up to vulnerabilities and criticism that can hurt. The truth hurts.

My sister is always good about zapping me with honesty that I need to explore. I appreciate you pointing to a door I may want to examine.

M.'s mother has mentioned that she hopes our struggles with having a baby don't ruin our marriage. It makes me wonder if she knows something I don't. M. is her only child, she is Italian, expressive, perceptive (a lot like me in some ways). She wanted more children but they were never able to conceive again. She understands me and also knows her son is fine with the way things are. I don't know why I am talking about her right now, but I guess it is the subtle warning of divorce and how I don't want that to happen.

M. has done so much more than I ever imagined. He has stepped up to the plate in a big way for me. It is very hard to explain, but I DO feel like it is his money. I think he has spent about $36,000 (cash, out of the savings account) in the past 6 months for us to conceive. He is extremely analytical and in his mind, it is a complete failure, he thinks that IVF is a rip off, he thinks that of course, Stanford wants us to try it again and again and again and maybe if it happens after 30 times, then what the hell do they care other than they got their money.

I understand the logical, mathematical, and hopeless graph of my fertility issues. It is really pathetic looking. That is what he sees. As more money is added to the bottom line, the more stupid we were as time goes on.

The graph in my mind does not look good either, but I believe it can change - a line of explosion of goodness is in my future.

When will I give it up? I can only say, I am not ready right now.

You are talking to someone who knows that money does not buy happiness. Hell, I have been over $150,000 in debt and I still slept at night. Money does not stop me from doing anything that is important to me. I usually find a way.

M. is completely opposite. He is great at saving and for me to just know there is still a good chunk of money in a savings account, I am willing to deplete it. M. is not. He is capable of writing more checks, but is not willing to. When we are old and secure, I'm sure I will be thankful.

I would rather be poorer with children.

I already know what M. thinks........actually the nun said that I should ask "what do you think about so and so..." and not "how do you feel" because he is more in touch with his thinking self. He thinks it is a crap shoot and we have very, very shitty dice. He doesn't think that good things happen to good people, he thinks that everything is random and anyone can be a lucky asshole and we never are when it comes to pregnancy.


I do need to let him know how much I appreciate him going this far, so much further and the finish line keeps moving for me. He hurts too and I need to nurture him more.

I just wish I had a husband like so many others here in blogland who are willing to climb Mt. Everest with their wives and die if they must in the journey.

I know, I need therapy.

How much do you charge?  

At 5:35 PM, Blogger Sandy said...
Julianna my friend. I just want you to know I'm thinking of you.  

At 5:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Wow. This is tough. I hate these dilemnas. No advice. I just hope you two come to a decision that makes you both happy.

Hang in there, dear.  

At 6:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'd like to suggest some messageboards for you. There used to be several really good ones for women who were TTC over 40 and one for those who were pg over 40 on parentsplace.com. I tried to find it today but they changed the site so much I had a hard time locating them. If you go forward with a 3rd IVF, I'd suggest joining/lurking on a few boards (the pg ones specifically) to see what's worked for other women, maybe there is something they know that could help your odds. I posted earlier and just had to say that i don't think you'll ever be okay with just letting it go at this point. 3 IVF's isn't too much, and it's only money. I guess I always asked myself, which would I rather have 10,000 dollars or a baby...when the answer stopped being a baby, it was over, until that point, you've got to do it. I'm not saying that's what you need to do but I just hate to see someone who wants a baby so much and has been through so much not succeed. Maybe you could tell him that you'll do the 3rd IVF in conjunction with counseling so if it doesn't work, you'll be able to work through the grief and maybe come to terms with the idea that it'll never work.

Anyway, I'm hoping you do it and it's successful. Praying hard for you and DH!  

At 2:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
My partner has never been able to have a baby. Now she is me, she doesn't want to;-) She has made do with a teenaged boy, and my daughter's baby who usually goes home at the end of the day.
I'm so sorry. I hope you live happily with whatever outcome life brings.  

At 5:36 AM, Blogger Dee said...
I'm thinking of you sweet friend....  

At 8:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Julianna,
I have nothing wise to say. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone. That in itself probably helps not at all.
I hope you two can work something out that makes you both happy. We're still trying.
Kinneret
kinneretb@gmail.com  

At 9:19 AM, Blogger sweetisu said...
Thinking of you my friend.  

At 9:43 AM, Blogger E. said...
I wish there were easier answers. I wish infertility at the very least stayed in its box and didn't take over our relationships, our work, our lives. I am so sorry, and I am praying, praying that you and your hubby work something out. Love you.  

At 12:26 PM, Blogger ~L said...
You must be much better at quiet crying than I am, girl. Thinking of you, Julianna, and wishing you the best. I'm so, so sorry that you have to go thru this crap.  

At 12:26 PM, Blogger Pamplemousse said...
I do hope you can work this out. The main thing is to keep the line of communications open. It is so easy to shut down and not express how you feel. I sometimes think I have said it all before and what is the point of repetition? The way I look at it is do I want the regret of not pushing the envelope when I could? Men are different from us chicks but we all have to move forward together. Dr Beautiful is right about your response to the drugs but only you and your husband can decide whether you move on or call a halt.  

At 10:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Thinking of you. **Big cheesy Internet hug**

thisgirl  

At 1:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
The question "when is enough, enough?" was one of the hardest decisions we've ever had to make. It took J. about 2 years "catch up" to answer that question. It's frustrating reading the same book and having your partner be 4 chapters behind-- or have a totally different perspective on what the book was about.

I have nothing to offer except hugs.

marla
Middle way  

At 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Sigh.

I'm not Catholic either, but on what would have been the due date of my first "child", I found myself wandering into an old Catholic Church's gardens. I found the Virgin Mary as well - a statue of her hovering over a small child. I wrote a note to her, requesting safe passage for my child and then tried to wedge the note between her outreached hands...I pushed a bit too hard and almost broke her hand off (I think it was a resin statue - not of the highest quality!). Egads. I figured that was not a good sign....

Your story about your offerings and about your time with your lovely friend Mary touched my heart.

I am thinking of you and wish I could grant you all your heart desires...

Moogielou  

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