Friday, March 04, 2005
Dr. Next and Me
I am in a little room near a concierge desk in a magnificent hotel overlooking the Golden Gate bridge. The weather is a bit crappy (drizzle and chilly) but there is nothing like walking the streets of San Francisco.

I need to type fast because I have some shopping to do before it gets too dark so forgive me for rambling and typos. At least I'm not being charged by the minute so I will at least be able to spell check.

Dr. Next will be my next doctor. There is a dark, angry vacuum that is trying to suck me in but I am resisting the pressure because if I go to that place, it serves no purpose for me moving forward.

Oh Lord.

Just so much information and a lot of it is very upsetting for me. I don't even know where to begin and I find myself in tears for the first time since my appointment Thursday. I guess it all hits home here, in print.

I am actually reluctant to write everything that was said because I don't want it to interfere with fellow bloggers suffering through IVFs...........I just don't want anyone to question their own protocol because of what was said to me.

It is easier if I just list everything.

1. Dr. Next was very perplexed and confused as to why Stanford put me on the protocols that they did..........he can not see any reasoning for IVF#1 or IVF#2 protocols. Remember, they were different, so they really screwed up twice.

2. I never needed so much medication. They WAY overdid my dosages and my meds - three different ones on some days.

3. He was confused as to why they weren't monitoring my E2 levels.

4. IVF#1 was an 8 day cycle and IVF#2 was a 10 day cycle - VERY short (especially the first one).

5. My eggs didn't grow naturally (around a 14 day window) - they were pushed to pop.

6. They grew way too fast and he doesn't understand that when they saw how well I responded the first time, that they pushed me even harder the second time.

7. Never, EVER, would he have taken me to blastocyst stage.

8. He even does a lot of 2 day transfers (day 3 is great for information gathering but with someone like me - OLD! - put them in the woman's body as soon as possible). He says study after study shows that it is FAR better to have the embryos in the mother. The petri dish is stressful. He cited many studies and they NEVER do blastocysts anymore. For younger couples, they would rather freeze. Too many embryos that would have made it in the mother die in the stressful blast petri dish.

9. LONG Protocol..........lots of blood work..........lupron challenges..........waits for ideal month ............he says it may take several until they feel all of the signs point to START..........they are very patient in trying to get the best possible cycle.

10. I could go crazy knowing the blood, sweat, tears and money that have been put into what seems to be very questionable medical practices.


For my sanity, I have to move forward. I cannot go into that dark, angry, bitter room. My husband is PISSED at Stanford.

Dr. Next was very kind and loving and patient. When he spoke of his questioning Stanford, it was done in a professional manner, it was just hard to interpret what he was saying and realize that I have been fucking my time away.

He gave me an exam. I am 10 pounds heavier than ever but he said that he wasn't concerned about my weight at all. I just feel so fucking fat. I have 17 starting follicles on my right ovary and 15 on my left that he could see and since that was the end of our appointment, he exaggerated how amazing it was that I have so many promising factors to move forward with IVF. Still 20% chance, maybe 30% if they can catch a good cycle but not more. I already knew that and I would question if he said anything different.

I really liked him.

I am to get FSH next week (day 3 - probably Friday) and then they do the Lupron challenge which will be a first.

I can use my $1200 worth of Bravelle but there are no studies that they participate in whatsoever. They are a very private clinic and I was stunned when I got their breakdown of fees and they are about $3,000 less than Stanford.

One more thing, they do not use an anesthesiologist for the retrieval. I told him about my problem (autonomic nervous system shuts down) which he said is a vaso-constrictor reaction that happens sometimes when the cervix is dilated and stabbed with a very sharp instrument. It actually comes hand in hand with low blood pressure - which I have. Interesting.

I know that they will not be dilating my cervix during retrieval, but I am just so afraid of having a bad experience.

I cannot imagine being awake while they are digging and pulling on my ovaries. Anyone who has been awake during retrieval, can you please help me with some information? What was it like?

I really need to run.

I miss my blog friends. I hope all is well.

Thank you for being here for me.
posted by Julianna · 3/04/2005

15 Comments:
At 8:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I wasn't going to say anything but I thought they were overcooking you with the meds, same thing happened to me. I'm so glad you've found a Dr that knows what he's doing. I'm praying that this is it for you.

lauren  

At 9:25 PM, Blogger Cricket said...
Julianna,
I am so happy and so sad for you at the same time.

You and your husband have so much fight left, as evidenced by your anger. I'm glad he's in this with you.

I can wait to hear about this next leg of your journey.  

At 10:03 PM, Blogger Cass said...
Oh it's just so hard to know the right thing to do. I'm glad you're getting a good feeling from Dr. Next, and glad that his protocol is different and sounds like it's addressing your specific situation rather than some generic case. Also (v selfishly) glad you found a computer to use to keep us posted. And glad you're in a wonderful hotel and have time for some shopping :)  

At 3:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
Julianna, I have had pickups with full general anaethesia and more recently just with IV meds. I hated the thought of them poking around my ovaries and so I let them know that I was REALLY nervous and that I'd like the maximum IV drug. I felt really drunk but and the procedure went quite quickly... the RE was explaining everything as he went along which I didn't like (using words like 'needle' etc.. I'd rather just lie then in ignorance, thanks!) So even though I still get petrified before the retrieval I'd still prefer just the IV because the recovery is so much better. Good luck!  

At 7:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I am so sorry for all the stress you are going through, but glad that you have a good feeling about Dr. Next.

I was awake for retrieval, but with some seriously relaxing IV meds. The nurse administering the happy drugs called herself my bartender and if I had even squeaked, she would have given me more. It wasn't that bad. I even had one of the nurses leaning on my belly to try and squish over a follicle that was playing hide and seek (not good on a full bladder). A bit ouchy, but not as painful as a dental appt. ;)
jc  

At 8:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'll tell you why Stanford did what it did, because like too many (not all, but too many) IVF clinics they are 'one trick' ponies and if your needs work for their protocol then great, you're in luck, but you're SOL if you actually need a doctor to think outside the box because most of the ones I've met can't or won't. I don't know if it's incompetence or laziness, I'm veering on the side of they only know one thing and one thing only and can't move past that thought process. Yeah, and no one would wonder why I go off on a tirade about medical so-called professionals. However, along comes a doctor who is diffrent and actually can think outside the box and I believe your Dr. Next is it and I am v. happy for you. You and your husband should be pissed at Stanford. This is why I didn't do IVF with my clinic here because my doc had the same 'bull in a china shop' mentality even though I responded well to drugs, she started me out with too high a dosage, even though we knew I responded well. I argued that less is more and that with older women especially that a 'slow cooker' process is best. She disagreed. I didn't feel the need to hand over $20,000 for a procedure I knew wouldn't work. And here I am.

You, however, have FSH levels most 20 year olds would kill for AND you're a great responder. I feel really good about this cycle, really, really good.

xxoo,
Emily  

At 8:27 AM, Blogger K|nneret said...
Julianna,
It sound like this doc knows his stuff. And you like him, which is good too! This is all good news.

Much luck with this cycle.  

At 2:35 PM, Blogger Sandy said...
I'm glad that Dr. Next questioned, and as much as I'm sorry you didn't get great treatment previously, I'm also glad that you're fully involved and questioning here. Sounds like a great doctor who understands the partnership approach. So when does everything start???  

At 3:32 PM, Blogger Heather said...
Wow Juliana, it sounds like Dr. Next really knows his stuff. I know it must be hard to hear that the other two cycles were doomed to failure by faulty protocols, but the good news is, that's all over now. It sounds like you are in good hands. I don't have any insight into the being awake during retrieval thing, as I was out like a light, but I did want to second the day 3 transfer thing. My doctor told me the same thing -- that only in the rarest of circumstances would they even consider a day 5 transfer. (I had a day 3 like the vast majority of their patients).

Good luck to you! I'm very, very excited for you to get started.  

At 9:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
I like Dr. Next - sounds like he really knows his stuff and was really thorough in everything he discussed with you.
Here's to the future, J.  

At 10:23 PM, Blogger Kristin said...
I really like the Dr. Next treated you like the intelligent woman you are. Doctors like that are worth their weight in gold. I'm so sorry the first two cycles were f'd up but his attitude gives me great hope for the future. Many prayers for your peace of mind and for success with Dr. Next.  

At 2:14 PM, Blogger Lori said...
I hope this cycle will work for you. Reading your post, I only thought about how sad it is that "how to get us pregnant" is still a mystery for many of us. There are many variables involved and any number of studies can be interpreted or used to justify one method of treatment over another. I'm really sorry the cycles at Stanford didn't work and I hope that it was not a fault of the doctors. Hearing that you're pissed at Stanford is a little upsetting to me, seeing as I'm about to do my IVF cycle with them. But my protocol appears to be very different than yours. No Lupron - I'm doing a cycle of birth control pills and then on to 12 days of Gonal-F, which is longer than you were on, and no Bravelle. I want to trust that the doctors do a little more research into our histories and hormonal responses than just blindly applying the standard protocol for all who walk in the door. I have to trust in them because I'd go nuts to try to shop for the best IVF clinic. They're all a little different and all have failures - and successes. I pray that you have success. I really do.  

At 2:49 PM, Blogger Julianna said...
Thank you everyone for your kind comments.

Lori, when I was posting this at the hotel, I kept thinking about you and how I didn't want this post to upset you. I loved my doctor at Stanford and I also discussed with you the number of other RE offices that I interviewed before choosing Stanford. I am very upset to be getting such conflicting information. Of course, this has nothing to do with your case and at some point, we have to trust and soldier on.

I was never on lupron at Stanford. I was never given a lupron challenge before starting BCPs.

Stanford: 1 month on BCP for ovary rest and then begin stimming with Gonal F, Repronex and Antagon. I was never asked for blood draws during my stimming and from what I gather, it is very important to stay on top of the E2 levels.

Dr. Next: FSH at day 3 followed by lupron injection and blood test 12 hours later to see how my ovaries are responding this month. If all looks good, I start BCP and then begin lupron injections about 2 weeks into BCP's and then a short rest for a period (no BCP or lupron) and then more blood work and then stimming begins with some FSH stimulating hormone (Bravelle OR GonalF) but not more than one.

This was all prescribed because of my specific records and my doctor was very perplexed as to why Stanford did what they did to ME.

I am sorry that this is not comforting news and I hesitated (as I wrote in my post) because of not wanting to throw a kink in anyone's chain.

You know that I am so hoping for you and I will monitor your progress with love and support. Wouldn't it be grand if we both got pregnant with these upcoming cycles and I can praise Dr. Next and you can praise the genuises at Stanford.  

At 2:52 PM, Blogger Julianna said...
Thank you everyone for your kind comments.

Lori, when I was posting this at the hotel, I kept thinking about you and how I didn't want this post to upset you. I loved my doctor at Stanford and I also discussed with you the number of other RE offices that I interviewed before choosing Stanford. I am very upset to be getting such conflicting information. Of course, this has nothing to do with your case and at some point, we have to trust and soldier on.

I was never on lupron at Stanford. I was never given a lupron challenge before starting BCPs.

Stanford: 1 month on BCP for ovary rest and then begin stimming with Gonal F, Repronex and Antagon. I was never asked for blood draws during my stimming and from what I gather, it is very important to stay on top of the E2 levels.

Dr. Next: FSH at day 3 followed by lupron injection and blood test 12 hours later to see how my ovaries are responding this month. If all looks good, I start BCP and then begin lupron injections about 2 weeks into BCP's and then a short rest for a period (no BCP or lupron) and then more blood work and then stimming begins with some FSH stimulating hormone (Bravelle OR GonalF) but not more than one.

This was all prescribed because of my specific records and my doctor was very perplexed as to why Stanford did what they did to ME.

I am sorry that this is not comforting news and I hesitated (as I wrote in my post) because of not wanting to throw a kink in anyone's chain.

You know that I am so hoping for you and I will monitor your progress with love and support. Wouldn't it be grand if we both got pregnant with these upcoming cycles and I can praise Dr. Next and you can praise the genuises at Stanford.  

At 11:59 AM, Blogger Pamplemousse said...
Julianna, i know I am behind in posting but I just wanted to say that Dr Next sounds like a fab doctor. Don't think about the past cycles with Stanford. They are past and you are moving onwards and upwards.

My protocol will only be Gonal-F and Synarel. No BCPs or anything else. Also if I make it that far, IV meds for retrieval. We will be with you every step of the way.  

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